We Are Christians Too.
Isn’t it startling how many people in the west do not realize that not all Arabs are Muslims?
I was having a conversation with a friend from Bulgaria the other day, and I mentioned to her that there is a good amount of Christians in Jordan, and that Christians and Muslims live in brotherhood and complete harmony. In fact you will see Mosques and Churches right next to each other, like in Al Abdali area, This totally took her by surprise and she thought i was joking.
Interesting, isn’t it?
I do not have solid numbers but I’m willing to bet that most westerners, especially in the United States, think that words Arab and Muslim are pretty much the same. they somehow forget that Jesus, Peace be upon him, was born here, that the middle east is the birth place of Christianity. Thus naturally There are significant populations of Arab Christians throughout the region, including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Northern Africa and Palestine/Israel.
Another fact that seems to allude them is that Arabs are Semites, We’ve all heard the term anti-Semitism being used — often to describe Arabs. While antisemitism does specifically indicate hatred for Jews, Being an Arab is not a religion, Arabs are part of an ethnic group, Arabs were around long before Islam, and there have been (and still are) Arab Christians and Arab Jews. and even though you can’t really compare Arabs and Jews, since one is an ethnic group and the other is a religion, many don’t realize that its a paradox to call an Arab an Antisemitic.
So that’s that.
And here’s a quick note for my American and western readers, its pronounced Muslim with an S, not Muzlim with a Z, i think thats pretty easy to manage 
Qwaider قويدر on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:07 am
Well said Bakkouz
I would only add one fact. Muslims are also Christians. The believe in Christianity, they believe in Jesus Christ, they believe in the bible, they believe in the Virgin Birth. Just about all the basis of Christianity which makes Islam is more Christian than a number of christian sect recognized by everyone.
secratea on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:11 am
Bakkouz, i totally agree!
take a look at this.. my personal account on the issue
http://bonbonloverr.blogspot.c.....uslim.html
Sari Al-Hiari on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:18 am
Bakkouz, couldn’t find the digg button, so I submitted it to digg manually.
Please let me know if you wish to withdraw it.
Bakkouz on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:45 am
Qwaider: Absolutely, also Muslims and Jews have many
teachings and practices in common.
Secratea: Yes indeed
Sari: its under the “share this” button :tongue:
The Observer on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 2:32 pm
I have always thought of this whenever i heard the antisemitism term! It is always used out of contest!
As for Arab christians, I think we are very small minority, 5% in Jordan? less in other arab countries?
It would be the same applicable thing for us assuming all Americans are Christians. It is just worth pointing this out.
kinzi on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 2:44 pm
People are surprised when I tell them that most Arab Americans are Christians. And that in tearing down Arabs they are also being anti-Semitic.
OK, now am I allowed to be the contrarian? No Christian would call a Muslim a Christian. It means “Christ Follower”. Sure, there are many secondary beliefs and moral issues we hold dearly in common, but when the biggest biggee foundational issue that Jesus Christ came as Saviour and died a substitutionary death is not in common, the secondary issues are moot in terms of identity. I do have much more in common with Muslims in terms of values than I do with secular Americans, which is part of the joy of living here.
Bakkouz, even though it appears to you that Christians live here in in complete brotherhood and harmony, it is different definition for us as a minority. Last month in school, my son had teaching and memorization from the Quran in his Arabic, Ijtima3iaat, Uluum, Math and another subject.
One guv book taught those who don’t believe in Mohammed (pbuh)as a prophet are kuffar. Do Christian kids feel ‘comfortable’ about being called that from their own textbooks, which they must use whether they are in Christian schools or not?
They feel many of the same feelings that Muslims do in the US, as minorities…except this is their home country. And the price of speaking up about it isn’t worth the cost of rocking the boat.
Ammar on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 6:10 pm
Kinzi, Hi :biggrin:
Well if I may indulge a bit in the linguistics of the terms used, Muslims are Christians in the sense that they admit the existance of Jesus, his Virgin Birth, and that he is a Saviour -from evil- like all the prophets, so in a sense we accept everything the christian tradition says about Christ, except for some details about historical events, now this admission and honoring of Christ isn’t something to pass lightly, because this recognition of other faiths isn’t practiced in other faiths, jews don’t honor jesus, in fact they’ve got some colorful stories about him, and christians don’t honor Muhammad, so Islam is actually fundimentally based on honoring previous Messages, human interaction might have daunted the picture, but the belief in Jesus and all the prophets is a piller of Islam, whearas this is not the case in other faiths, and here lies the unique position muslims find themselves in.
Now, The Kuffar term is a different story, I’m not sure what the text books say, but the term Kafer, translates to the word disbeliver, it took a religious discourse because of its reoccurence in the Quran, but the Quran itself describes those who reject Satan as “Kuffar in Satan”, so the word Kafer isn’t a cursing word, but rather a discription of status, disbelievers in anything are kuffar, but I do understand the social aspect of the story, the moral of this story though is that we’ve got more in common than anybody can deny, and respect and coexistance has been part of our tradition, even if our history is sometimes misrepresented.
Bakkouz on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 6:11 pm
The Observer: the percentage of Christians is around 7% in Jordan, about 20% in egypt and around 40% in Lebanon and 8.8% in Palestine/Israel.
Kinzi: I am not sure what the official policy is regarding teaching Christian students the Quran in schools these days, but back in my day our fellow Christian students were not required to learn the Quran or the Islamic curriculum. Anyhow, I don’t think that having to learn a few versus of the Quran is such a terrible ordeal
And as for the rocking the boat, there is no boat to rock! I don’t really know what you mean exactly. You state: “The price for speaking up about it isn’t worth the cost of rocking the boat”. you make it sound like Christians in Jordan are an oppressed group. Where as this is completely untrue. have you personally or anybody you know or have you even heard of any Christian in Jordan who has been discriminated against for being a Christian or has been ill treated in any way, shape or form? Christians in Jordan are Citizens who enjoy the full rights and privileges of muslims. Christians are well integrated in the Jordanian society and have a high level of freedom. Nearly all Christians belong to the middle or upper classes. Moreover, Christians enjoy relatively high economic and social opportunities in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan compared to the rest of the Middle East. Although they constitute less than ten per cent of the total population, they have a slightly larger representation, of 10%, in the Jordanian Parliament, and hold important government portfolios, ambassadorial appointments abroad, and positions of high military rank. [1]
Having said that, I beg you to clarify what you mean exactly by saying “it appears that Christians live here in complete brotherhood and harmony”. have you noticed any kind of mistreatment towards Christians here in Jordan? or have you somehow felt a sense of loathing towards Christians during your stay in Jordan that I have not sensed during my entire life?
Please, Enlighten me
Bakkouz on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 6:30 pm
Oh, and I missed the part about “Kuffar”, The term kafir means he who does not recognize the God or the Prophet Mohammad, In islam Christians are not called “Kuffar” but “People of the book” and should be treated thus, with the utmost respect. Please refer to This wikipedia article
And here are some versus from the Quran to put your mind to ease:
* And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. (29:46)
* Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma’rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn . (3:113-115)
* And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. (3:199)
* Say (O Muhammad ): “O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. (3:64)
Dizi izle on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 7:06 pm
Thankyou for this post
kinzi on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:37 pm
Thanks for the big smile, Bakkouz!
I’ve seen statistics (which Nas backs, but Bam doesn’t) that Christians are 2.8% of the population.
Christians students are allowed to take their own religion classes, but I am referring to the government education curriculum for the subjects I mentioned. Of course history is going to filled with Islamic thought and Jordanian kids need to know their regional history, and I’m ok with a few verses to memorize here and there (my kids know more about Arab history than American, lol).
BUT, it is pervasive in the main subjects, and I think Christian schools should be able to have curriculum that reflects their own beliefs and values. All the moms in the pictures wear scarves, and it is only the dad and sons that go to the mosque on Fridays.
I hope to get back to you when I am less sleepy, and can quote some Jordanian Christians so you aren’t hearing my interpretation of their stories.
Ammar, thanks for responding! I think I understand what you are saying, but stand with what i said that Christians would not agree that Muslims are Christians. In the Jewish and Christian traditions, prophets were not saviours from evil, but men of God (who sinned, except Jesus) who called others to live rightly. “We accept everything the christian tradition says about Christ, except for some details about historical events”
Those ‘details’ are the foundations of our faith: that Jesus Christ lived as the Incarnation of God died in accordance to over 300 prophecies to redeem mankind from it’s state of being separated from God, rose from the dead and lives forever as God Himself. I know that is not what Islam is all about, and I am thankful that Jesus is respected to the degree he is, as you mentioned.
ammar on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 8:57 pm
Kinzi, I’m not going to go into detailed disection of who believes what, but it is important to stress that my expression “saviour from evil” is synonymous with deliverence into God’s mercy, and this was the mission of all the prophets, including both Jesus and Muhammad, now the divinity of Christ is another issue, the belief in the humanity of all prophets, is a testiment of the Oneness of God and His ultimate being, the differences still are respected, despite their fundimentalities, something we can’t claim to be the case in judeo-christian history, particularly that of Europe, both in medieval and modern times.
Now, anyone for Ben and Jerry’s Chocolate Fudge Brownie Ice Cream?!
Bakkouz on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 9:23 pm
Kinzi: You’re welcome, even though I did not narrate any Jokes, nor was I particularly funny or humorous
As for statistics, according to Wikipedia, Christians constitute about 7% of the population [1], while according to the CIA Factbook they constitute about 6% [2]. while according to this Christian website it is estimated at 4.5% as of 12 Feb 2008.
So I’m not quite sure where you got your 2.8% figure from.
Farah on Sun, 20th Apr 2008 10:23 pm
12% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
7% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._in_Jordan
5% http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-159238104.html
2.75% http://www.smyrnaministries.org/status.html
Do we even have a statistical department in Jordan?!?!
Jano on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 6:49 am
ah sa7
kinzi on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 7:58 am
Bakkouz, I smile because your blog is a great place to interact. And people who disagree offer ice cream to one another! Where in the blogosphere does THAT every happen?
I’ve had a couple of calls and emails with Jordanian Christian friends and they ALL said to me “Kinzi, don’t go there, especially on-line, it’s not worth it”. Which tells me what I already know: there is a boat to rock, but it is not my place to rock it. One wise man said: “Tell Bakkouz that the majority in a country will always think things are just fine for the minority. Until someone has lived as a minority,experienced what it feels like, it is hard for them to understand.”
As for the stats, I’ll have to poke around. It wasn’t from the website Farah stated, tho. I think it was from numbers provided by the Jordanian churches themselves, but I’ll have to check.
Ammar, I am ready for that ice cream! THX
El3atal on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 8:41 am
I don’t usually comment on blogs however I want to clarify something about the comment that “all Muslims are Chrstians.” To me, being Christian is like being pregnant. By that I mean that you are either pregant or you are not. There is no 35% pregnant. According to Chrstian belief, Christ came to save the world from sin by his death on the cross and resurrection on the third day.
I suspect that the concept of the trinity, divinity, and resurrection are tough and almost blasphomous to our Muslim brothers. But bottom line there are many theological differences that need to be acknowledged. The purpose of inter-faith dialogue is simply to understand what others believe in and not to try and convince them that what we believe in is right.
Having said that, this should not prohibit us from respecting each other as we do share the same value system.
As for harmony, I would say, God bless the King.
Peace
Bakkouz on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 9:40 am
Kinzi: Alright, That is your prerogative, we shall not speak of this online, perhaps we might be able to discuss this further someday in person
also, not only there is ice cream, but cake too, delicious and moist :tongue:
za3tar on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 12:09 pm
Nice post.
I totally agree with you. I believe that mass media has a responsibility to report stuff faithfully and they are not doing that. Thus the image of Arabs and Muslims in the west is shaped as the media is shaping it.
I also found it hard to tell my American friends that although i am a Muslim, i received education in a Christian school in Ramallah and we were still taught Islam, and that right next to our school’s church was a Mosque.
When i came to the USA i found it rather strange that Jewish is considered a race. I always thought that Jews were those who followed the Jewish faith, and they could be of different races. Thus you have Arab Jews, African Jews, Caucasian Jews ..etc. But still, in the USA Jews are rather considered a separate race than what we thought. eh .. at least to me that is a bit weird.
PH on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 12:54 pm
@ kinzi :
“They feel many of the same feelings that Muslims do in the US, as minorities…except this is their home country. “
Excuse me; but aren’t there many Muslims whose home country is America ?
” All the moms in the pictures wear scarves, and it is only the dad and sons that go to the mosque on Fridays.”
Yes, and all the moms in Western school books don’t wear headscarf and celebrate Christmas and Easter .
I studied school in the UK and we used to study the bible and go to church. Even when my father intervened and told them he didn’t want them to take me to church they continued to do so behind his back for a while until I mentioned it to him.
Not only that; but in the UK it’s obligatory to send your children to school and if you don’t the police come knocking on your door, so even though I was studying in an Arabic school I still had to go to the public school and as such I had to study two curriculums .
“Until someone has lived as a minority,experienced what it feels like, it is hard for them to understand.”
Couldn’t have said it better …. now you understand what its like to be a Muslim in the west
.
kinzi on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 1:02 pm
That would be great! BUT, you, like, NEVER come to Amman, sa7?
(That reminds me, Mr. Aqaba, is there a place on the beach there that rents Laser sailboats? I want to teach my kids to sail someday, but not on a catamaran, I need a little boat. I saw posters of Aqaba with Lasers, and I am a Class 3 Certified Laser Instructor. You can come along too and learn with the Kounouz!)
Bakkouz on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 1:31 pm
An Intellectual, A body builder AND a Class 3 Certified Laser Instructor? wow! now that’s impressive :biggrin:
Ok well, I’m not sure if they rent these kind of boats, actually I’m *almost* certain they don’t, I will however ask around for you and see what kind of boats they do rent, if any.
MommaBean on Mon, 21st Apr 2008 4:35 pm
So, when are we making this field trip to Bakkouz’s place? I’m definitely up for sailing (although those little tiny sunfish used to be more my speed).
Oh, and we all know where my theological ideas are, so I won’t even go there :).
TripleM on Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 10:12 am
see, that’s their problem. As you see they seem to have a narrow vision of everything around them. Its always about them. But when it come to other part of the world specially the ME, they tend to have the wrong ideas. I don’t know if they were blinded by their government or media, but I do know that they may have the complete opposite ideas about us. All I do care about is that I’m Muslim who happened to be an Arabian, who believe in every other Abrahamic religions.
.
I really think as people they don’t have the willing to look for hidden truth or know about others.
They must know that there is Kuwaiti, Iraqi, Jordanian, Egyptian, Moroccan and Sudanese Christians and all treated the equally the same. They live together, look pretty much the same and the share public holidays
I hope I made my point clear, I know that I’m not good writing Eglish.
kinzi on Tue, 22nd Apr 2008 9:12 pm
Bakkouz, thanks for checking on the Lasers, and for oh-my-gosh, thinking I was an intellectual! Golly, tough for a recovering-ditz to get her head around.
MommaBean, I’m sure I didn’t mention this one to you as I was thinking the bigger kounouz. My first boat was a Sunfish!!! Lets consider this field trip to Aqaba idea, we can take the kiddos sailing , see Bakkouz, and hear more about your theological ideas!
PH, sorry i didn’t check back to answer you!
Of course there are many American born and bred Muslims, but I should have stated where most of my America-residing Muslim acquaintances/friends are from blogging Jordanians who live as a minority there.
I think it is said 60% of Jordanian women wear a scarf. It would be nice if the other 40% had some representation in school books, too. My son’s English textbook, which is American, does have a covered mom, some of them celebrate Kwanzi and Hannukah in the stories.
In the US, we can home-school if we aren’t thrilled with the public system, as many Muslim families do too.
Yes, I have enjoyed being a minority here, to the point I think everyone in the majority somewhere should experience it!. I’d love to have you read an article I wrote about it on my blog, it’s called “Bint Al Ajnabi Vs. Bint Al Balad”, from last year. Blessings, PH.
PH on Fri, 25th Apr 2008 3:25 am
Thanks for your late reply
…. I will check your post, time permitting. Unfortunately the UK doesn’t have home-schools, is public education mandatory in Jordan ?
Blessings to you too wa salaam
kinzi on Fri, 25th Apr 2008 6:32 am
Wow, PH, you did it! Thanks for taking the time. There are home-schoolers in Jordan, but you have to get permission from the Ministry of Education.
wa 3alaykum salaam!
humanista ateo on Mon, 28th Apr 2008 12:55 pm
Talking to my colleagues at Maroc, they always found funny my name being “Ismael” just like Abraham’s son and father of all muslims. For them, Isaac, also Abraham’s son and father of all jews is equally important. They even acknowledge Jesus as a prophet as important as Mahoma, even although they don’t consider him child of god, just as jews do.
dizi izle on Mon, 5th May 2008 3:53 pm
So, when are we making this field trip to Bakkouz’s place? I’m definitely up for sailing (although those little tiny sunfish used to be more my speed).
Oh, and we all know where my theological ideas are, so I won’t even go there :).
Joe Takkle on Mon, 2nd Jun 2008 5:28 pm
Browsing around the net before looking for information, this is by far one of the most informative article I’ve found by chance. This is one American who has learned more perspective on things.
viktorherremode on Thu, 12th Jun 2008 11:12 am
:ninja: I do have a damn lot of friends from Irak, arabic, but in no way Muslim. Christians, and they do have openions on Islamic behave.
If you need more info visit http://www.arabicchristians.com
Boating Holidays UK on Sat, 21st Jun 2008 11:34 pm
Interesting thought, I’m from the UK so its easy to say muslim with the s not the z
Cheers
Mally
Andos on Sat, 28th Jun 2008 10:47 pm
Make peace not war
Macy on Tue, 4th Nov 2008 12:40 pm
It should not be based on what you believe in but look at how those people contribute to the community before judging them.
Andre on Tue, 4th Nov 2008 5:45 pm
My country is Christian(Norway), but i don’t feel like one. If i should pick a religion i would pick hinduism or budhism as they seem to be the most peacfull ones.
As stated over ” Make peace not war”
Linkie on Fri, 7th Nov 2008 2:28 pm
I live in Bulgaria and we are christians, but I dont believe so much right now. Too much things happened that made me lose my faith.
Did you ever ask yourself if there is God then why so much good people suffer ?
Tattoos on Sun, 9th Nov 2008 8:43 am
Interesting article, but I want to answer the comment above me. Our god is a good god and it is the devil who kills steals and destroys. So these terrible things that happen to good people have nothing to do with god. They are works of the devil. But if you are a good person and terrible things keep happening to you, then maybe you need to take a leap of faith.
Small Tri Guy on Mon, 17th Nov 2008 5:33 am
Hi Guys,
Notice the posts relating to small cat sailing. Have you thought about sailing a trimaran instead? A good small trimaran will offer the speed of a beach cat … but with a lot more stability. That is important when you’ve got a family with little children. They will be thrilled to sail fast, but not have fun if the beach cat they’re on tips over.
Small Tri Guy on Mon, 17th Nov 2008 5:36 am
Hi Guys,
I saw you posting about beach cats, and was wondering if you’ve ever considered a trimaran instead? A good small trimaran will offer the speed of a beach cat, but is much more stable. This is important for little children learning to sail. They will thrill to fast sailing speeds, but will not like going for a dunk if the beach cat heels over.
Chicagoland Cadillac on Thu, 20th Nov 2008 2:45 am
You are calling westerners ignorant which kind of makes you look bad… but on the other hand i do agree with you. Most Westerners are ignorant and think that all Arabs are Muslims. There are Jewish Arabs, Christian Arabs, and others. Yes, what you are talking about is a stereo-type but it wouldn’t be a stereo-type if it wasn’t partly/mostly true.